For the record…

Hey guys,

Many have expressed curiosity regarding my return to Five Iron, particularly because of my interview in “The Rise and Fall…” DVD. I’ll try and make it brief, but it’s not a question that’s easy to adequately address without a little background. To get right to the point, I am not a Christian. My departure from the band in ’99 was primarily because I didn’t, or couldn’t, believe any more. Those were agonizing years for me. My whole life was built on the Christian faith and I really did want to believe. But the more I thought, prayed, and read about it, the less it made sense. Eventually the time came where I was honest enough with myself to admit I couldn’t keep the faith any longer.

Fast forward a few years and I had what I took to be a genuine religious experience. To be clear, it’s not as though the clouds opened up to reveal a choir of angels. Nor did the virgin Mary manifest in my Cheerios. I simply had a longing to touch the divine; to have someone come to my aid. In that moment of need, and for a couple of years after, I believed that’s what happened. I felt peace, and that was (temporarily) enough to override any of my usual objections. In the months that followed I tried going to church again, and I picked up the bible for the first time in a long time. But I found no comfort there, only reminders of why I abandoned the faith to begin with. Regrettably, this experience had been bereft of any intellectual revelation. I often remarked to friends that if I wanted to remain a Christian I needed to stay as far away from the bible and church as possible. But the Christian faith of my wife and friends was and is a positive thing, at least in the sense that it gives them peace, and helps them put others before themselves. Most of my family and friends are believers, and it can be very difficult, lonely even, to have such different ideas about the world than everyone around you. So I focused on these positive attributes and held on to the memory of my experience. But my faith, if you could call it that, bore little resemblance to anything I previously espoused. Eventually I more or less stopped thinking about it. And as more time passed I came to view my numinous encounter as merely emotional – the last vestige of beliefs I held dear for so many years.

A few more years went by and Stephanie (my wife) and I had our first child (Eliana). As tends to happen at times like these, I suddenly found myself considering my responsibility as a father…thinking about the things I would teach my children. It was an amazing time. I felt like nothing I had previously hoped for or dreamed of mattered by comparison, and these questions were suddenly thrust back to the forefront of my mind. It wasn’t long until I realized I could never look my daughter in the eye and tell her Christianity, or any religion, is true. And so I regained the courage of my secular convictions.

This hasn’t been easy. My wife is still a Christian, and as you can imagine this introduces a whole new set of challenges when raising children. But despite the difficulties, I still love and respect Stephanie and I know she feels the same way about me. Our children will hear both our views and one day make up their own mind. I believe this is a very good thing. And it’s this same dynamic – one of mutual respect, intellectual challenge, and just long-standing friendship that also permeates Five Iron (to say nothing of the love of music). It’s the reason I’m ok with being in a “Christian band”, although many of us are inclined to spurn that moniker. And, without presuming too much, I think it’s why they’re ok with having me. If you asked each of us what Five Iron’s mission is you might get 8 different answers, but from my perspective this band has no agenda other than to be authentic. It’s about honesty. I am interested in a pure, artistic expression, regardless of whether or not I’m of the same opinion as the artist. Reese is a gifted lyricist, and I enjoy his words even though we have very different notions about the world. He talks about struggles with faith in a way that I can relate to, and though we came out of our respective struggles with different ideas I am still moved by the music we all make together.

I’m grateful to my Five Iron cohorts for their friendship, and I look forward to continuing writing songs together. I’m also thankful for all of you fans, and that I have the opportunity to be part of something that makes so many people happy. I hope I’ve made it clear that none of this is meant to provoke anyone. It’s also not an invitation to debate. There may come a time where I feel it’s appropriate to share more detail, but for now I simply want to let you guys know where I’m at. Sorry to wax autobiographical…see you at a forthcoming show!

-Scott

71 Comments

  1. Thanks so much for sharing, Scott. I strongly identify with your experiences. For now, I’m still holding onto my Christian beliefs, if only because I can’t yet bring myself to go through with letting go. When I’m honest with myself, I feel like losing them is going to be inevitable. In the meantime, I’m still holding onto hope as best I can, and trusting that if Jesus is real, he’d understand my doubts. That’s about all the faith I can muster right now.

    Perhaps I’m still in the “agonizing years” you described. This all sounds sort of dramatic and ridiculous, but maybe you know where I’m coming from. Thanks for being honest, and for encouraging me to be honest.

    1
    • Garrett, that’s exactly how I feel at this moment, that belief in Christianity seems pointless. And there’s a part of me that wants to go back, a part of me that misses how I used to believe. But not at the expense of what seems logical.
      And, maybe I will get it back. Maybe I will understand it all, as will you and maybe Scott. But as of late, doesn’t seem like it.
      I appreciate Scott being in the band despite his different beliefs, I think it’s beneficial actually. Five Iron might be the example for Christians and music artists to tackle doubt and skepticism head on, not in a condescending way, but a compassionate, understanding way, that Five Iron way we’ve all come to love.

      I seriously hope that made sense, but I doubt it. TL:DR, I agree Garrett. 🙂

      1
      • Having the courage to let go, admit you were wrong for so many years, is the hardest part. It took me about a year between when I stopped believing and when I could admit to myself and my wife that I had stopped believing. It was another year farther that before I could admit it to anyone else. But I’m glad I did it. Life makes so much more sense now. I’m at peace, happier than ever, and actually succeeding at making myself a better person. Committed Christians won’t believe me when I say that I have more to live for now, but I do. The truth sets one free.

        1
    • As I do not wish to spark debate either, I will leave my view on this out and simply say thank you for being honest [both Scott and Garrett]. Your stepping up like this, if nothing else, has caused me to care even more for both of your situations and as such, I will add you both to my prayers. Hopefully you won’t mind, but tough cookies if you do 😉 jk. Thanks again guys!

      1
  2. (typing, typing, typing – backspacing, backspacing, backspacing – typing again – backspacing again – sitting – thinking – coming up with no good way to reply other than…)

    I identify.

    2
    • Yeah. I don’t know how good I feel about what I wrote below, but now that I’ve read this insightful bit, I kind of feel the same way. Backspace backspace…

      2
  3. Wow… Thank you for sharing and for being open and honest. It’s strange to think about you feeling that way, while making some of the music that has impacted some of us fans in such a deep spiritual way.

    I pray that God will use the band and it’s fans to reveal himself to you, and bring you to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. Also rest assured that Salvation is not a temporary thing… I don’t know you well enough to know what lead you to feel like you were a Christian at one point, but if that involved you placing your faith in Jesus Christ, then the Bible teaches that you have been sealed by the Holy Spirit. And if you have never actually placed your faith in Christ then I again pray that God will do a work in you so that might happen.

    3
  4. Scott – I really appreciate your honesty. Thanks for sharing.

    4
  5. I am one who was and is quite curious as to what the dynamic might be in a band with such a differing in faith. I first greatly appreciate the candidness with which you speak, Scott, and that you would even be willing to address the questions and concerns of your fans on any level, let alone a level that is so personal.

    Secondly, it’s easy for people on the outside of any set of circumstances to look in and say where a person falls short. As for me, I read your post mostly just thinking, “Yup”. I don’t think anyone who has seriously examined their faith and belief could say much different. Though I’m currently at a different place, I sympathize a lot with what you’ve spoken of. I often feel hollow in corporate worship. There is so much about Christianity and the Church that I find objectionable.

    I currently consider myself a Christian, and I’m happy to be one when I spend time with my youth group at the church I work at. I think the wisdom of Jesus and the character of the God I read about is something worth emulating. And I believe that if there be a God, that God is for you, and with you even if you can’t experience that, just like he is for me, and with me, even though I don’t experience that. After all, it’s the beginning of the Beatitudes that says “I am with you who are poor in spirit. Yours is the kingdom of heaven.” Though I doubt, and though I struggle, God is with me, even if I go so far as to doubt God’s existence.

    And truly, if mercy falls upon the broken and the poor, dear Father, I will see you there on distant shores.

    5
    • Furthermore, I wish you the best in your relationship with your wife and in your fatherhood. May you both endeavor to seek truth and share love. That will be a good place for your daughter to grow.

      5
  6. The fact you can say this–that there isn’t a record label telling you ‘no’ and that your band mates support your honestly–that’s awesome. It’s what “christian music,” if there is, or ever has been, such a thing, should have always been like.

    Thank you FIF, for being real. Many of us have been in similar places as Scott. It may not seem like much, but as someone who has been in the “music ministry” and seen it first hand, it means a hell of a lot.

    6
  7. Welcome back, Scott. Been a fan of Five Iron since “A Flowery Song” came out on Air-1 radio. I got to see you guys at the Greek Theatre in L.A. during the “SkaMania” tour – it was Halloween, and you guys dressed up like the Supertones for the occasion, which I thought was hilarious.

    I, for one, appreciate your honesty and openness, and I can understand your views. There was a time when I had doubts about my faith as well. What eventually buttressed me were books and articles by authors like William Lane Craig and Alvin Plantinga, who are arguably two of the world’s top Christian philosophers. Dr. Craig has debated some of the world’s most prominent atheists such as Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Lawrence Krauss. Many of those debates are available on Youtube, and are interesting to me because both sides of the atheism/theism discussion are presented with equal time.

    Glad you’re back, looking forward to more great songs and shows!

    7
    • It’s funny, some of those same debates really helped me see how I was unfairly biased in favor of Christianity, and were influential in my eventually leaving the faith.

      Christians who want to keep their faith should stay away from fair debates and educated ex-christians.

      7
      • No _true_ Scotsmen, those theologians, eh?

        7
        • Heh, I almost responded to your earlier comments about Scott with with the same phrase. Are you being ironic, or do you not understand the “No True Scotsman” fallacy?
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

          PS – i want to respect Scott’s desire to avoid having this become the place for debate. As we speak, I am setting up an uncensored forum elsewhere….

          7
        • Thanks, Matt. I think it would be great if you want to set up a forum to discuss/argue/beat each other to a bloody pulp.

          7
        • Try reddit.com/r/debateachristian or reddit.com/r/debatereligion. Those are already made, lightly moderated forums designed for this sort of thing.

          7
      • Matt, please do not lump all Christians into the same category as your experience. I have been in debates and listened to debates and read debates of all kinds including some between Christians and “educated ex-Christians”. I even went to Bible college, where there is a very real danger of the Bible becoming nothing but another book to a person [and yes, this happened to some that I knew and happened on a small scale to me as well] and my faith is stronger than ever now. I know what I believe and I can say with complete confidence that there is not a single thing in this world that could make me go back on it. I am sorry if this is not the case for you, but not everyone is going to be like you.

        7
    • I was at that halloween show. That was AWESOME!!! I never laughed so hard when they came out as the Supertones. I doubt they’ve ever worn a suit since? ha

      7
  8. I don’t follow any type of religion, but I find myself liking many “Christian” bands. I always have. Five Iron is definitely one of my faves. Though religion has never really been a part of my life, it has never stopped me from getting chills every time I listen to Every New Day and On Distant Shores. And even more so on Blue Comb 78′ because that song really hits home. I respect what you guys do, and why you do it. Even more now that you guys respect each other enough to go on with different beliefs.

    8
    • I got a dog when I was 12. We put him to sleep in August of 2010 when I was 25 years old. The night before we took him in, all I could think of was Blue Comb ’78. He was the last great symbol of my youth.

      8
      • That’s so sad, I’m really sorry for your loss 🙁 What always hit me hard was “My parents both up front, cause they loved each other still.” So subtle, yet so loud at the same time. Something so minor, an every day item having such a profound effect in someones life.

        8
  9. Thanks, everyone. Most of your comments have been of the right spirit, regardless of whether or not we see eye to eye about religious matters.

    As a rule I don’t like to censor, but I did remove an incendiary post. I’ve specifically asked for there not to be any debate here, and I certainly don’t want there to be any more self-righteous, homophobic rants, however articulate they may be. Any comments along those lines will meet the same fate.

    I enjoy a rigorous discussion about this subject as much as any, but I’ve gone through this already. I know what I believe, and in my experience arguing back and forth in this manner rarely produces any positive results. I may engage in this discussion in more detail in another venue, but this isn’t the place. Furthermore, to me this is about music. I’ve got songs to write. 🙂

    9
    • The new forum is up at:

      http://5ironfriends.com/

      No doubt there are still bugs to fix and enhancements to make, but people can start signing up and posting as they wish.

      9
    • Scott, your decision to delete the previous post was the right one! As a follower of Christ, the biggest problem that I have with many other “Christians”, is their tendancy to Judge… if I didn’t know personally who God is, posts like what was deleted would make me question my faith… “If that is what being a Christian is all about, I want no part of it…” but thankfully I know God, and know that in His eye’s I am no less a sinner than Ray Boltz or anyone else, and he will forgive my sins when I ask him to.
      I understand and respect your feeling that you have been through it all and ‘know what you believe’… but that won’t stop me from praying for you and your family.

      9
  10. Scott,

    If you believe that belief in Jesus is wrong, why are you willing to be a part of a band who’s lyrics (if they continue to be written by Reese and Leanor) support belief in Him?

    In Scripture Jesus certainly doesn’t believe that such neutrality is possible: “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. (Matthew 12:30)

    Just a question. Feel free to ignore and/or delete it.

    Christopher

    10
    • Obviously Scott disagrees with Jesus on that point. I do too. I think it’s great when Christians and non-Christians can work together to make the world a better place.

      10
    • Christopher, I’d suggest you go back and read the next to last paragraph of my post again. Also, I know many Christians who would take issue with your interpretation of that scripture, but for for my part it doesn’t really matter. Perhaps I question whether Jesus ever said that, or maybe I just disagree with the statement outright whether he said it or not. The point is I don’t believe the bible is infallible, and your statement requires me to in order to have any weight.

      10
  11. The DVD interview combined with this post are very beneficial. Thanks, Scott.

    11
  12. Thanks for sharing this, both as someone who’s had similar life experiences and someone who always wondered about the last two Yellow Second albums…

    12
  13. I pray that Scott may feel conviction from the Lord and one day come back to Him. Really, religion is such a terrible thing. I’ve gone through so much disappointment in the Christian church to make me abandon my faith. But yet I still haven’t because God is pure and all those who have done me wrong and not accepted me are human beings who are full of faults. I hope Scott finds faith again, although I don’t know the real circumstances, God loves you no matter what and whenever I think about how horrible my life is, I always wonder “How much worse would my life be without God?”. I never want to know. When people fail you, He won’t. God Bless Five Iron and their ministry.

    13
  14. Part of what has me so incensed about this (and I’m honestly not all that angry directly at Scott for anything) is that when this stuff shows up, it’s discouraging to people with young faith, because it makes it seem like faith is a fairy-tale that everyone eventually gives up on, and that’s absolutely not the case, nor are the people who manage to hold onto their faith merely “kidding themselves”. In my case, my faith continues to survive, and I’ve withstood exactly the kind of intellectual challenges that brought Scott down, so my life is proof that it can be done, and it does not require putting your head in the sand.

    In my experience, people believe whatever will allow them to serve what they love. I think that what has allowed my faith to adapt and survive is that it’s underpinned by a genuine love for Jesus. On the one hand, you can go searching for answers in apologetics and theology texts, but unless you are prepared to accept the answers when you learn them, it won’t make a difference, because the onus is partially on you to accept the answers you find.

    14
    • Or, perhaps a post like this merely challenges people to examine their beliefs critically, whatever they may be. Faith obviously isn’t something everyone grows out of. I have many friends who have struggled and come out still believing, and I respect that. As I said previously, this wasn’t meant to be a provocation. Many, many fans have asked me where I’m at with this stuff and I felt I owed them an explanation.

      You may be onto something when you say “people believe whatever will allow them to serve what they love”. I did love Jesus, or the idea of him, most ardently. Anyone who has known me long enough would attest to my sincerity. But I loved truth and honesty more. Those challenges that “brought me down” were those pesky things like facts and logic, and I hope nothing I ever believe is impervious to such honest inquiry. It was painful for me to let go of the faith, and to this day my life is more difficult because of my unbelief. But the fact that I have confidence in what I now believe, and that I can suspend judgment about things where evidence is lacking, makes it all worth it. My beliefs are free to go where the evidence dictates, rather than trying to force pieces to fit due to a dogmatic allegiance to scripture.

      14
      • I suppose I’m satisfied enough with this, but I’ll just say a couple more things.

        I don’t feel that choosing to believe in Christ Jesus in any way impairs my freedom to confidently understand and respond to reality. In fact, it has provided me with an internally and externally consistent metaphysical view of reality that answers questions that currently remain outside of the scope of the sciences due to their testability or their non-scientific nature (such as philosophical issues). Sure, it doesn’t always _prima facie_ gel with the popular paradigms in the natural sciences and cosmology, but I’m more intrigued by the way that Christian commentators are able to critique those paradigms in ways that adherents to those paradigms seem unable to, and to further critique the social structures and practices that seem to keep those paradigms in places of preeminence.

        As far as a person believing what lets them serve what they love, that observation goes for all people, not just people of faith; I don’t think we as human beings are the entirely rational creatures that some of us presume, so it becomes necessary to consider why a person might want to advocate a particular viewpoint over another one, when none of us can really ever examine all of the evidence for a particular belief over the course of a lifetime. I think it really does come down to a personal decision to accept one explanation or another when the two are in conflict.

        Also, you characterized one of my earlier posts as a ‘homophobic rant’, and while I realize that’s the common or rhetorically advantageous knee-jerk reaction to that type of subject material being used to make a point, my objective was not to ‘bash’ gays. To this day I have a couple of friends who are gay, and my brother is also gay. I still love them and value them as people even as I seek to understand them and the thing that makes them different from me. My comments should be examined in their proper context. I was using the comparison to Ray Boltz and Jennifer Knapp to illustrate the disappointment felt when you think you know where somebody stands (in terms of their personal values), and it turns out that you don’t. However, there is one admissible flaw in my comparison which is that neither Boltz nor Knapp felt that they needed to fully abandon their faith, just indicate their disagreement on one particular well-known principle.

        14
  15. Hey Scott (and several other commenters),

    I work for the Church that led at least in some ways to your lost faith. Can I take a moment and apologize for my friends and I? Not for what we believe, or the Jesus we represent, but for the piss poor way we represent him.

    Continue your journey friend. And again, sorry we can be jerks.

    Jason

    15
    • Hi Jason, are you talking about the church as a whole, or a specific one?

      While I have met my fair share of judgmental Christians, I’ve had the good fortune to have many loving, compassionate, and smart Christians as friends. I never faulted the whole church for the actions of a few, nor did that have anything to do with my departure. At any rate, thanks for your kind words.

      15
      • As a whole, we can be jerks. Not saying that’s the reason for your convictions. I just get nervous about how often we get in the way of the Jesus we all love.

        Anyway, you write amazing music! I was listening through all the variations of Dark and Stormy Night last night, and I was just super impressed! It’s great to have you (guys) back!

        15
        • Thanks, Jason!

          15
  16. I just want to say I appreciate the honesty in this post. I’m sure there are other people in “Christian bands” who feel the same way, but don’t admit it. Even though I may not agree with you, in my mind this sort of blatant honesty is one of the things that makes 5Fe so special.

    16
  17. Hey Scott, I know you’ve heard this a few times by now but thankyou for your honesty and for sharing a part of your storie with all of us FIF fans.
    As I read your post I was surprised at the fact that none of what you said offended or hurt, because I’m a Christian. I thought all you said was totally understandable. Who hasn’t questioned their faith at one point or another? You know, Christianity, and I mean Biblical Christianity not distorted by a denomination or by a person’s opinion, is as choice. If there is a God, than its a choice that he gives to us Every New Day to love him back and to accept him. Just like your guys’ song says “Even when I was faithless, He still died for me”. If Jesus is who he said he was, then I believe that, once again if there is a God, he still loves you Scott; more than he did 10 years ago and he will continue to love you and never give up on you. He doesn’t force us to love him; he’s a gentleman, he waits for us to love him back. Thankyou again Scott, it’s great to have you back in Five Iron; hopefully some of that made a little sense and hopefully it didn’t come across to you that I was preaching.

    17
  18. I can COMPLETELY relate to you Scott and others commenting (Matt, Carissa).
    I recently came out of the “skeptic closet” on my blog and to some close friends after being a christian for over 19 years(I’m 26). It has been hard and I have heard a lot of “why?”. I have also found that those who truly love me have rallied around me and built me up. One of my best friends recently went down this path as well and I was confiding in her. Telling her me fears of losing my friends who were still believers and she revealed to me that she didn’t just lose “friends” but her marriage over it. It really is amazing Scott that your wife is still there with you. I have been blessed with an amazing husband that is on the same page “spiritually” as me. You really find out who TRULY cares about you and not your “convictions” when you reveal you believe something different.
    I wish you all the best in your endeavors. and long live FIVE IRON!!!
    If you want to read my blog here it is: http://jenmartens.blogspot.com/2011/11/stuck-between-god-and-hard-place.html#comment-form

    18
    • I’m sure this will sound silly and strange, but I do think I should write about how much this post meant to me.

      When I was 19, I left the faith. It’s not that I had never believed, it really felt more like waking up from a bad dream. Rather, more like being shaken awake by someone who needs you to come out of a coma. I believed intensely for years, at the expense of myself and those around me. I left for the sake of the person I loved, and then for myself, upon learning to love, and not hate, myself. I had psychiatric issues that had gone undealt with all my life, having severe bipolar disorder, extremely repressed sexuality (going as far as injuring myself physically to stop being attracted to the same sex, and to stop “lusting” after the opposite sex), and deeply scarring trauma, all mistaken for everything from satanic influence to “not being right with god”. I needed medication, to be honest with myself, and years of therapy. After leaving the church for the sake of my health and happiness, I left the religion for the sake of critical thinking and studying. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life, and I regret nothing. I’m sure there’s a kind of Christianity unlike the insane sect I belonged to, but I still don’t feel it would be right for my life, and now I have no ability to believe if I wanted to.

      But while I regret nothing, there have been holes left by my departure. Not that “god shaped hole” like in that song, but holes left by losing all of my friends, and the closeness I once felt with my family. I’ve made new friends, and I married and now have a wonderful closeness with my husband, my new family. But the faces of people I used to love still haunt me. I still have pictures of them and still wonder how they are.

      Possibly the strangest thing I think I’ve gone through has been with music. I was so into christian music back in the day. I listened to nothing else, even going as far as to label non-christian music sub-par (I was of course wrong, there’s lots of good stuff out there, but I really once believed that). Upon leaving, I felt like I had to throw away every band I ever liked. It took me years to come to a place where I can listen to some of it. It just reminded me of so much negativity and abuse, from others, and from myself. This wouldn’t have been so bad, except that I have an intensely personal relationship with music. I can think of so many lyrics that I could have sworn spoke directly to me. Some bands, I could even name all the members, and met them on multiple occasions. I felt like these people were my friends in a way, that there was a spiritual connection that linked us all together. To be frank, I still think I believe that, although the nature of how things are connected spiritually is a bit different to me now.

      FIF was my favorite band. Not only did I feel that lyrical spiritual connection, but the love you guys had for your fans told me that you cared for us in return. I’ve met several of you at several shows, and you’ve always been nothing but wonderful to me. And with no other band did I even feel connected to the other fans. I spent a lot of time in my early teenage years in the old chat room yall used to have on the site, hanging out with other fans, developing relationships with them. It felt like a weird big family of sorts.

      When I felt my faith starting to slip away, I went to a concert in Dallas. I felt a kind of despair while I was there, just wondering if I should be around all the christian fans, or if I was an outsider, an intruder. I felt broken and spent the night wondering if there was anyone else who felt like I did. I made a horrible assumption that night, that perhaps the band and fans would reject me in the way others had.

      There were glimmers of hope. I saw a spoken poetry session in Dallas (I really think it was Dallas, I hope I have that right), and during the session, I heard a lot of words I related to, and it made me wonder if I was wrong. Certain song lyrics in the later albums grabbed me and made me wonder if I wasn’t entirely alone, I still cry when I hear some of them. I found it hard in those days to really hear anyone, I was so guarded, ready for someone to assault me, with an onslaught of questioning, preaching or even with fists (which I’m sad to say was based on experience). I couldn’t think clearly at all.

      You guys broke up around the time I left. I remember listening to Electric Boogaloo while leaving (especially Spartan), I remember listening to the last album while still believing, beginning to question, after leaving the church. I set the music aside, and tried to forget about FIF and all the other bands I once loved.

      After a few years of working through everything, I had to take a car trip from New Mexico to California. I grabbed a stack of CD’s without looking at them for the trip. Somewhere near Las Vegas, my husband fell asleep, and I was changing the CD’s without looking. I found myself listening to the first CD I ever bought, Our Newest Album Ever. I listened all the way through, even the hidden track. I realized I actually had ALL the albums with me, and wound up listening to every one. I felt everything I always had felt and more. I felt a kind of spiritual connection that I think reached beyond religion. I felt hope and joy. I listened to one song over and over, “See The Flames Begin To Crawl”, for some reason I felt close to that one. When it got to the line about not remembering your names, I realized that I remember all of your names. It hadn’t been ten years, but it had been fifty years worth of experiences for me. Your impact was stronger than I think anyone had thought it would be. I certainly didn’t expect it.

      Over the years, I started checking the FIF site with some semblance of regularity. My brother mentioned there was some kind of countdown, but that he didn’t know what it mean. Finally, I checked the site again while having an especially hard day while moving from New Mexico back to Texas, and I heard the new song. It sounds amazing you guys, it’s everything I felt on that car trip, with more promise of hope for the future.

      Hearing this from you, Scott, is just a final confirmation for that non-believers can still belong. That there is still hope, and something we can feel, without specific dogma, or even a belief in a specific deity. That love can exist and thrive between people who disagree, and have very different lives. If you can belong in the band, I can belong as well, in the ranks of your “biggest fans ever”. It feels a little silly, but you don’t know how much that means to me.

      When I was about 14 or so, my bff and I made a silly video where we danced to One Girl Army dressed in camouflage, then we sat around writing letters to you. We were beyond ecstatic when we got replies. We requested songs on the radio, and made our parents drive us for hours from Alamogordo NM to see live shows in Albuquerque, then I made them drive me from Abilene to Dallas. I had a poster on my wall and clippings cut out from magazines. My FIF t-shirt was my favorite shirt, and I listened to every band you were associated with. I actually think I learned to write songs by listening to you guys. I was a huge fan as a silly teenager. I threw this stuff, memories, feelings, away because I thought I would be some kind of disappointment. For that, I apologize, and hope to make up for it by being the mature adult equivalent of a crazed teenage fangirl.

      I also apologize for the length of this. It’s not anything I’ve ever written about before, so I feel a little silly. In closing, I will find a show to get to, even if I have to drive from Austin to Dallas, Albuquerque, Colorado, wherever, I owe it to myself. I’ll bring my husband too, and shake your hands, all of you. Thank you for everything you’ve given me, and I hope to someday reciprocate.

      I’m also still working on a song I will dedicate to you all. I’ve been working on it since I was 18, I’m 26 now. It will happen someday.

      18
      • Thank you for this! I can relate to a lot of it…

        And: Did you do the song (given you’re 30 now =P)

        18
  19. Scott,

    Your interview on the dvd was probably my favorite part. At certain parts I felt like I was hearing myself talk. Your presence in five iron is exactly what I love about five iron. You guys are like no other christian band, especially lyrically. I feel like your beliefs would be a issue in most other christian bands which I find ridiculous. The five iron family is very fortunate. Most people dont get it and the few of us that do wouldnt trade our experiences and feelings we get when we hear that amazing music for anything. Most people will go their whole lives not experiencing anything like it, from a musical perspective anyway. Im pysched you are are in the band and pysched that you guys are back at all, I have found nothing to fill that void in the last 8 years and when I randomly went to the website last week for no particular reason I couldnt help but get misty eyed.
    I think we are meant to have our own unique beliefs and relationship with whatever higher power there is. I have come to believe that doubt is ok to have and its good for beliefs to evolve as we get older and more experienced. Anyway I could go on forever on this subject, I cant wait to see you all again. Your honesty is much appreciated by any reasonable person that read that I can assure you. Be well sir.

    19
  20. If anything, it brings up a rather interesting question, “How many Five Iron Frenzy fans have lost their faith in the last 8 years?” Would they even still fit in and feel comfortable attending a Five Iron show? Or would they feel shunned and rejected like they do from their former “Christian” friends? Or perhaps badgered and condescended as if their thoughts are inferior? Hard to say, but I really appreciate Scott’s comments, even though I have ended in a different direction than most, likely worse off. I suffer from nihilism. I do not reject the existence of God, I do not give the digital finite world of “logic” and “facts” too much merit. If God is infinite beyond measure, then who am I to ever attempt to define or understand him with my limited thoughts? All my thoughts will always be incomplete, through a glass darkly, in part. My true problem is beyond the logic, because there is no complete truth through logic, the world is created with analog properties, and a realm with analog properties continues to produce new variables limitlessly. An equation with infinite input never comes to a complete result, so logic and facts as interpreted by an incomplete being are relative to time, and logic is a cyclical beast, continually turning back and forth, so it cannot be completely trusted.

    The God I can only ever approach yet never meet while on this earth

    the limit of f(aith) of i, as i approaches God, is Truth
    lim f(i) = Truth
    i->God

    What truth can I ever truly know in finite logic?

    None, my problems delve much deeper. The only way to channel the Truth of God, is Faith, of which I no longer have any, and cannot bring myself to manufacture. False faith to me is worse than no faith at all. I shouldn’t create what isn’t there just because I want it. There is no recipe based in logic to create real faith anyway. Natural phenomena cannot be created.

    For some of us, true faith doesn’t come easy, and in some cases doesn’t at all. Our hearts are truly broken and have lost their functionality. We see the patterns and question the reality of it all, our logic hopes for something more tangible than can be provided, and our faith dies in infancy by the hand of our own minds. And the question arises, if God truly loves me, and knows me inside and out, why can’t he provide the road to Damascus that he knows I need to worship him without feeling false?

    Perhaps I am full of shit, perhaps I have it all wrong, and by no means do I claim to have any answer, and my own view point leaves itself open to disproving itself within itself. Imploding.

    I have no faith, I am an empty vessel, brokenhearted, with broken logic, and I cannot bring myself to pray — but hey, maybe I would still feel comfortable going to a new Five Iron show after all.

    20
    • ASM,

      Try reading some good, physical science and avoid philosophy for a few months. If you must read philosophy, try Daniel Dennett, or Descartes’ Discourse on Method. Otherwise, try Carl Sagan (“Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark”), Kenneth Miller (a catholic microbiolgist, “Find Darwin’s God”), or some nice hard science without much speculation, like geology or engineering. Avoid Thomas Kuhn until you’re in a better mood and have stocked up on some good empiricists.

      Seriously, it sounds like you need to lay off the post-moderns.

      Your formula is interesting. Are you proposing to locate Truth, or define it? i.e., do you find Truth via faith, or do you produce it? Maybe you’d like to write more about it at 5ironfriends.com ?

      20
      • Matt, why are you telling our friend ASM to load up on commentators who presuppose a naturalistic worldview and are vociferous critics of faith itself (e.g. Carl Sagan, Daniel Dennett)?

        The question of whether naturalism is true cannot itself be answered by the scientific method, because that is asking naturalism to provide a proof of itself when it is by its very nature exclusionary of any phenomena outside of nature, and this would only throw ASM into a confusing circular logic spiral. Naturalism is at its heart a philosophical presupposition that is not necessary to _enable_ the physical and life sciences, but is necessary if these sciences are to be treated as a replacement for a metaphysic in which a creator God may exist.

        20
        • Rory,

          I’m not sure if I can answer you fully without starting a debate. But I agree that naturalism is a presupposition that can’t be proven by the scientific method. The question is whether naturalism or faith is the better presupposition for maximizing one’s chances of finding true knowledge in general.

          20
        • I did not quite get the source of the questions at first — then I realized my mistakes… Portions of my thought process above were severely flawed and I didn’t think it through very well. Part, if not all of what was said should be considered flawed pretentious rubbish, to be discarded… And likely the same will apply to this attempt at clarification. I am not in any way attempting a debate, just attempting to clarify my statement based on the question/s.

          I do NOT believe that Truth is relative as my above statements might have insinuated. I am also not attempting to define Truth, as I do not believe that things analog in nature can be truly “defined” quantitatively. And by “defined”, I mean all variables considered completely, and FROM those variables, a result, or evidence then produced.

          I am also not saying that a complete objective Truth can be “obtained” through faith or otherwise. What I was attempting to suggest is my opinion that God and Truth can only ever be “approached.” The vessel for that approach is through faith via the heart. The analog infinite cannot be contained within digital finite logic without data-loss. And that additionally, like anything with analog properties (this world for example), I can zoom in for infinity and there is always another decimal place to be added just beyond grasp. Once you reach the limit of the current instruments of choice, there is always MORE data left to be gathered than all the data already gathered combined, and I believe that this will always be. I was attempting to express the belief that logic is of the mind, and faith is of the heart.

          I personally feel that it is arrogant for man to believe that they can calculate a complete end result to everything. I believe that obtainable knowledge is always finite and incomplete. Neither side can provide irrevocable evidence to prove a case when using logic. Therefore, the choices of both Christians and Atheists alike are only ever based in partial evidence. Both choose to complete their internal puzzle and fill the void with ‘a’ faith. Atheists accept by faith that the end result is without God, Christians accept by faith that the end result is with God. This is why Atheism and Naturalism do not appeal to me, because I do not find the arguments to be in any way more compelling or convincing in their suggesting that a God does not exist.

          Logic itself is the calculation of finite tangible variables to produce results based on either facts or assumptions disguised as facts. If the equation at hand continues to produce new variables continually, which all things infinite and analog do, then logic becomes broken and cyclical (as mentioned by Rory), stuck in a loop. When analyzing something analog and you attempt to gather information to define it, it is like chasing after the wind. You cannot formulate a result and produce True evidence when new data is always readily available. You cannot conclude when the game isn’t even over, and any attempt to in logic is only projection and conjecture not Truth. To counter, this is not to say that logic is bad, logic is a mere tool. If you have a vehicle on the edge of a cliff, you can use it to drive away from the cliff, or off the cliff. The vehicle itself is a tool, not the solution itself. So, if all true, if you laud logic as the basis for all your conclusions, then your conclusions are always incomplete, subject to change, and the only true way for any purpose or meaning in life to be obtained, is to break out of the cycle, to use something non-digital, to channel analog, faith via the heart.

          In my opinion people dismiss philosophy in favor of science too often, which is by no means an attempt to knock science, but science exists due to the thrill of chasing the intangible. An instinct to explore seemingly encoded within our DNA. The universe is a giving tree which is always able to provide scientists with something new to investigate. The endless pool of variability within the universe is why science exists in the first place. If the universe were actually solvable by science, (and what I mean by science in this statement is the idea that science can explain existence itself), then like a program that has reached the last line of code, the return value, all existence would then cease, and suddenly science itself would no longer exist. A solution like this would not produce utopia, it would produce nothingness, void. It would mean that you are nothing more than an AI in a machine, a program, out to destroy yourself in the end. That all of your thoughts, all of your emotions, all your notions of love, happiness, joy, anger, hatred, and pain, all of these would cease to have meaning, they all would have never existed as anything more than a result of patterns that came before them. You become math, every thought you ever had is no longer unique, and you are ultimately useless. So why would it matter at all at that point to try and prove a point? That would mean that your choices are not choices at all, and that the argument to or not to are irrelevant. That would also mean that Christian ideals would be a part of this whole you envision as well. To argue it or not argue it becomes a triviality.

          So why then does the Atheist when arguing a case against God care? Whether there are starving and poor? Whether there is injustice, murders, war? Is that notion, that intuition definable by science? Can you be calculated and defined? My answer to that is no. That feeling deep from within that exudes keen understanding of these things is sourced from the heart. A vessel channeling analog, things greater than logic can begin to fathom. If you feel these things are truly Atheist? Or is it just Agnosticism with a grudge?

          My own issue is that in all of this, I can see everything and lay it out before me, but it is always incomplete, in part. And I know that the missing piece to bring it all together is based in the use of faith (and by that I mean accepting ‘a’ belief within ones heart, whatever that belief is), but it would appear logically that the only way to obtain this missing piece is to manufacture it myself, to make a choice. And my problem is that I have manufactured faiths in the past from multiple sides of the spectrum, and it always felt false. So how then does one come into a faith that is truly organic, captivating, that makes you fall to the ground in tears because you finally feel a connection to Truth laying hands on you? The heart tells me that such a faith should exist, logic could go either way, but the heart hasn’t that faith to secure it. Shouldn’t one saved be able to confirm it within their heart?

          If I am a Christian, then I am a manufactured Christian, using false faith created by logic. If I am an Atheist, then I am a manufactured Atheist, using false faith created by logic. I am neither and rejected by both. I only have faith that Truth exists, but not faith in Truth itself. I am a resounding gong, a clanging cymbal, I am nothing. My road to Damascus took a detour, I never SAW. What is lacking cannot be counted.

          True analog conversion, from the heart, beyond logic, how does it happen? Because I cannot pray with any honesty from a source of emptiness. I am not so sure that True conversion while on this earth exists for someone like me. I feel that the only peace I will ever know is at The Judgment, face to face, regardless of its outcome. Physical sciences do not help me, I am not criticizing, but I see nothing there but vanity and cyclical logic. The only seeming hope left for the lost and wandering such as me is that there may be some truth in the statement “the last will be first.” But my own rebellious arrogance may tarnish and reject me that final grace. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.

          20
        • My reason for suggesting the science books was to help ASM change his mood, not necessarily his views. I’ve experienced a certain kind of optimism found among empiricists to be very refreshing, and a useful balance against post-moderns who suggest that we can never be sure about anything at all. We CAN know interesting, wonderful things about our universe (with a variable degree of certainty). Not everything, but lots of good things.

          Since ASM seems to prefer Math to Science, I’d suggest a good old Statistics text book. Find out whatever your local community college is using and try that. Or maybe sign up for the class. The social interaction might be healthy too.

          20
  21. My wife is a Pagan, and while I never really lost my faith, I had some real struggles with it coming up through high school and college.

    I grew up a fairly sheltered kid, my father a pastor, my mom a teacher at a Christian school. I never really branched out all that much until high school, when I reconvened with my friends from middle school and became best friends with again. They were, by no means, believers of any magnitude. Wonderful people they were, they didn’t believe like I did. Until I began to critically examine my faith, I didn’t realize a lot of what I “believed” was blind faith. In fact, I had become what I abhorred about the church: a blind follower, thumping others over the heads with my beliefs.

    After a lot of thought, prayer, and Five Iron Frenzy/Relient K, (and meeting my now-wife somewhere in there), I realized that my spiritual life is not about listening to what the church, a corporate entity led by people who have little interest in my life (spiritual or otherwise) beyond what money I can give, but is about living for Christ through whatever I do on a day to day basis. It has nothing to do with forcing faith upon others, like I was taught. It has to do with showing God through what I do every single day. As I said at the beginning of this excessively long tirade, my wife is pagan. It’s truly a blessing to be able to see a differing viewpoint on religion, to enable me to see why I believe what I believe and to allow me to reaffirm my own beliefs.

    Thanks for sharing, Scott. I appreciate your honesty and I hope that every day with your wife is incredible. I know for a fact having someone who believes differently is an interesting experience. Glad you’re back in the band, sir! 🙂

    21
  22. Scott, welcome back! I completely understand your journey with the Christian faith. I spent 4 years in Bible College and I ended up with more questions than answers. One of the wisest things one of my Bible professors said was, “If you don’t doubt your faith, you probably don’t really understand it.” Its really cool that you decided to share your personal story with everyone when you really didn’t owe us any explanation. I think its great that you are back with Five Iron. See you soon whenever you get closest to Pittsburgh, PA. peace.

    22
  23. Matthew 18:12

    “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?”

    23
  24. Hey Scott,

    It’s great to have you back in the band again, I’ve always loved the songs you write. If “It Was a Dark and Stormy Night” is any indication, we are in for a great album in 2013!

    In a recent interview Leanor talked about how Five Iron was an evangelical, mission band. Obviously this was apparent from the Bible studies and eventually Scum of the Earth. I was just wondering how the band is going to operate now that it isn’t really a “full time” job. I get the feeling that being in the band is just fun for everyone involved and that you all just want to make real, honest art together. Maybe that’s how it always was for you, but do you think that’s more the case in 2012 than say 1998? Sorry if this question makes no sense.

    24
    • The bible study and Church came out of our personal lives and personal beliefs, it was never our mission as a band to create those things.
      As a band we want to create good music that is honest and transparent of who we are (struggles, beliefs and humor).

      24
      • Thanks for the clarification Brad. I became a big Five Iron fan right before you broke up so I wasn’t around for the creation of those things, but I guess I assumed that’s what the band set out to do and that is why Scott felt like he had to leave. I love the fact that your music is very honest, even if that means ruffling some feathers or exploring topics that other bands wouldn’t touch.

        24
  25. Just remember that every small doubt is actually based on a leap of faith. The existence of God cannot be proven. However, the existence of a universe that is either infinite or could create (with all of the fine tuning already in place to create and sustain life) itself is equally unproven. At some point, both are based on belief.

    25
  26. The great thing about Scott’s post, and I think where FIF is right now, is that it is a reflection of what (I’d be willing to bet) a lot of older FIF fans feel or have gone through. This is what growing up is like. People, ideas, and beliefs all evolve and change. It is what it is.

    On a complety unrelated note, I should be working but instead im commenting on the Fivce Iron site. This is like some sort of last 90’s early 2000’s flashback. Instead of being a student at a school wasting time, I’m the principal.

    Weird.

    26
  27. Thanks for sharing that, Scott. I think it’s things like this that are the reason that people were willing to back the new album so quickly. People see the authenticity you speak of in your band. We see that you don’t shy away from difficult issues or act like it’s a crime to have doubts or even disagreements with the faith. Other Christian bands shy away from that because they know that they will catch flak for speaking up and speaking out, or just being different. They try to fit the formula because that gets the most sales supposedly. But you guys have no fears of being who you are and being unafraid of sharing your beliefs, and that is pretty refreshing. Not condemning all the other bands, but you guys certainly stand out in that way and it rocks. That’s part of what I as a fan like about you guys. You’re real.

    27
  28. Scott, I can identify. I have issues with the way church presents Christianity. A summarization of how I feel is that I am not a “Christian” in church terms. However, I try to follow christ’s example of sharing love, compassion, and respect to the poor and those who have no hope. I feel that today’s Christianity has been skewed from what God had originally intended. Church brings religion and rules that are not hope-bringing. I think God really wants to be less concerned with religion and “rules” that church tells us, and be more concerned with bringing hope, love, and compassion to a world that needs the hope of love of Jesus.

    Thank you for sharing your perspective and I have a lot of respect for it. Stay strong to what you believe, while keeping an open mind(hard for me to do)

    28
    • I stayed at a hosetl in San Francisco for two weeks and made delicious chicken marinara sandwiches pretty much every day. They’re very easy to make it you pick up some basics at the supermarket: wheat bread, a whole pre-cooked roasted chicken, Newman’s Own Spicy Red Pepper tomato sauce (this is key), mozarella, and then I add some crushed red pepper. Serve it with a salad or greens, and you’re good to go.

      28
  29. I think I had a similar experience, Scott. Except mine was more like a 6 month process rather than multiple years.
    It WAS agonizing. Maybe for some reason I thought that those who did switch didn’t really feel anything. But I was heartbroken, confused, sad, and ashamed all at the same time.
    The day I accepted I did not believe any more, was just a random day during the process. I remember I was just standing in line for something, thinking. And what went through my head must have been all the things that had made me doubt in the past years that came together in a clear picture that I did not believe anymore.

    I accept that people have their own religions and get comfort from them. But denying the original religion that my parents taught me from all that I can remember was one of the hardest things I have ever done.

    I respect you for being so brave and honest about this.
    While I no longer consider myself a Christian, I still love FIF and will continue to support the wonderful music and the (sometimes hilarious) songs that are put out.

    29
  30. It sounds just like parroting by this point, but thanks Scott for being so open and honest with all of us.

    My faith was dead for many, many years. My outlook was hopeless, my future grim, I was locked in depression and I struggled to do anything. Having 3 kids and a wife I know I needed to still function, so I did all I could. I tried reading the Bible, but got very little out of it but questions. I sat and thought about that concept of a “savior”. Somebody that would reach down and save me from fear, from myself, from life’s trials.

    I had no such thing. There was no cavalry, no reinforcements. If the dawn was coming, it was just so that the scorching desert heat would finally put me out of my misery and burn the flesh from my bones.

    And then it happened. The worst things I feared, the killing blow was dealt to me. The thing to finally shatter my life and drive me over the edge. The destruction of my family, my marriage, my friendships. My years of building walls up around me were made for this point. This was why I had made myself so distant and kept people at arms length, knowingly or unknowingly. This was my undoing.

    And then over the horizon, I saw something. In the darkness and through my walls, I saw a light. It was a faint light, and suddenly it turned into a hammer. A hammer that obliterated the walls I had so carefully and craftily built up over the decades. I was broken, but then so were my walls. For the first time in probably ever, I could breathe. There He stood. A savior. Not a physical being, but a hope. A light. A vision of the future. A vision of the life that was always meant for me, not the filth I had so proudly built up for myself and was proud of. Something beyond reason, logic, or understanding. Forgiveness not just for me, but also for those that had done so much wrong to me. Something impossible. It’s beyond comprehension for most and brings tears to the eyes of the rest.

    I am sharing this here not to boast in myself, because I am nothing. But I am sharing this because there is hope out there for everyone. Look for it when things fall apart. When things get destroyed. When death is at your door, you will see it.

    Somebody reading this needs to hear this right now.

    30
  31. Thanks for explaining Scott, and I’m glad you’ve decided to come back to Five Iron.

    31
  32. How incredibly sad and baffling. In my 23 years as a born again Christian I’ve found copious amounts of factual evidence that proves the Bible true and my own personal experiences and mircales witnessed have shown me Gods existence. That’s not to say I haven’t had ‘issues’. As a child I was plagued with nightmares and used to awake to find demons in my room and ghostly apparitions (demonic spirits) in various forms. Even in my early twenties I had vivid dreams where Satan appeared to me and spoke to me. I even turned away, so to speak, in my teenage years and started praying to satan and looking into the occult, stupidly trying to test God, though I have found it has given me a better understanding of some things. Though I wouldn’t recommend looking into this kind of stuff if you are not strong in faith and intellect as you could probably be easily deceived. There are a lot of sites out there offering lies and falsehoods about christianity, saying it has copied older religions etc. Sadly some people will fall into this trap and not bother to do their own research like I have done. Don’t forget we are living in Satan’s domain and he preys on us all, though unfortunately the weak become blinded and fall victim. I also feel like some Christians expect too much of God that He should bow to their every whim, when it should be us bowing to Him. He has given you life, though it might not be the life you want, appreciate what you actually have. Times can be hard as a Christian, much rougher than not being a Christian, and obviously some people aren’t strong enough. My wife and I suffered 4 miscarriages in a year, did I blame and curse God? At first, ofcourse I did, I’m only human and it’s easy to blame Him when something doesn’t go right. But the more I look at the way this world is going, I ask myself, do I really want to raise a child surrounded by all this evil. Granted I would raise them knowing God and being steadfast in faith and strength of heart, body and soul. But this world is getting worse and worse, so much so that it is blatantly obvious. I believe that my 4 children are in heaven awaiting me, but will this stop us trying again, we don’t know. Our life is tough right now, but my faith only grows stronger. Because at the heart of all my struggles, I have always known and felt that my life is in God’s hands, as I have felt His power and His love. I just wish that you could all know my understanding and that I could give you all the facts, but you have to be willing to find them yourself and understand that God is real. It is such a shame and I am deeply saddened for those brothers and sisters weak of heart and mind who have been deceived and blinded, and who can’t understand. There is so much proof of the bibles authenticity in truth and God’s existence, whereas atheists, evolutionists and big bang theorists etc, have only lies and foolish words to offer. On a side note, if anyones faith has been rocked by the supposed ‘proof’ last year of the big bang, know that it is false and there is evidence to disprove it. Plus the big bang theory, is just that, a theory, based on man made models of what a supposed universe would be like if a theoretical big bang had happened. So they will never find factual evidence. There is also a plethora of proof that evolution is nonsense too. So much of what the media tells us is written by those who are deceived. This world is fueled by evil, and only Christians who are strong in mind and heart, and ultimately their faith, will prevail. Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life, a spiritual walk, it is so much more than just a belief. Though I have some alternate views, creation.com offers plentiful evidence that may help you in certain aspects. I would say that the fact that Christians are persecuted so much, is surely proof enough that there is something sinister at work in this world. The last thing I would like to say is it saddens me that your daughter will be raised in an essentially broken home and could be blinded by her own father, but I pray that you will have your eyes opened to the real truth and that she will be strong in faith and lead you home. After all, Eliana means “God has answered” (I know this as my wife and I had this as one of our names) so it would seem that your daughter should be all the proof you need of God’s love for you. I hope I haven’t waffled or come across as holier than thou, I can find it hard to explain certain things, I understand completely in my mind, but it’s hard to purvey that sometimes. An IQ of 140+ will only get you so far 😛 I just felt that I had to write to try and help those of you that are lost as I felt so depressed after reading what Scott wrote, and it angers and frustrates me that the devil is sucking you all in, and I know how it can feel, but just don’t give up on God, as giving your life to Christ was/is the right choice, no matter what. I won’t read any replies or comments after mine, so I wish you all the best and hope to see you all at the end, or rather the beginning 🙂

    32
  33. I was reading what Scott said, and many others. I also can understand why many of you may feel this way. Not to sound abrupt or to jump the gun. But I would say you don’t have an understanding of the bible , because it’s no longer God’s word. If translated correctly then you would have an understanding. What do you think Hebrews 5 is about? Also baptism, is very important, how else do you expect the holy spirit to be with you at all times… Also I love FIF!! We are going to see you guys tonight, and I’ll start praying for you Scott. Also after being baptized properly you take the name of Christ, or Christian. Most Christians don’t even know what they claim to be. Try listening to the missionaries the next time they knock on your door and say” Hello, we are from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint.” Maybe you guys won’t feel so lost or empty.

    33
  34. we are all part of the evangelical movement that tried to make Christianity as cool as mtv and never taught us how to think and since evangelicalism was extremely good at bashing Catholics they also took down the Reformed churches due to their infant baptism and liturgical style and without knowing it the Eastern Orthodos church as well. What these people are reacting against is not so much Christianity as it is an expectation of a personal autonomous experiential ‘aha’ moment that is expected to follow Bible reading and worship in a church. Well, if that was correct, i’ll be an atheist too, at least practically speaking. May God be gracious if you are ignorant and also reveal it to you if the problem be your will. God is, He must be, He has been revealed in His word and in the traditions of the church, He deserves worship as our Creator since we are derivative from Him, Christ reveals God in Himself, and should be worshipped – done. Most of of us have never been humbled long enough to realize that God owes us nothing, needs nothing from us, and that our being with Him is a gift and blessing not something He will be crying for eternity for. We are truly a confused people. Read the church fathers. Read some Calvin or Aquinas. Too bad we didn’t grow up on them but on FIF to be our theologian/saviors.

    34

Comments are closed.

Pin It on Pinterest

Share Five Iron Frenzy

Share this with your friends!